Episode Details

In this episode of Faith & Clarity, Dr. Mark Turman welcomes Mark Matlock, founder of WisdomWorks and senior fellow at Barna, to discuss the cultural opportunity created by widespread spiritual curiosity amid church decline. Mark explains how Christian identification differs from practicing faith, why beliefs are more complex than they appear, and how Barna research identified large groups of spiritually curious Americans alongside curious skeptics, naturalists and materialists, practicing Christians, and a low-curiosity group. Together, they explore pre-Christian versus post-Christian mindsets, the impact of COVID on church disengagement, and how curiosity involves stretching and embracing ambiguity while church culture often seeks quick closure.

Mark urges Christians to keep conversations open, engage as one step in a longer journey, ask "spiritual discovery" questions, and share the lived experience of trusting, leaning into, and obeying Jesus. The conversation closes with a look at why a better, more compelling theology of heaven strengthens Christian witness.

Topics

• (0:00) Introduction
• (0:40) Meet Mark Matlock
• (2:39) Christian identity vs attendance
• (5:40) Researching spiritual curiosity
• (7:11) Pre Christian vs post Christian
• (13:25) Curiosity as virtue or vice
• (14:37) Measuring curiosity and openness
• (19:33) Four curiosity profiles
• (25:07) COVID and the rise of nones
• (28:01) Pioneers vs settlers in church
• (35:54) Curiosity builds connection
• (40:03) Defining oneness with Jesus
• (42:37) Leaning into trust
• (49:22) Discovery questions that open doors
• (53:01) Safe conversations in public
• (55:35) Why heaven must inspire
• (1:00:18) Conclusion

Resources

• Faith for the Curious: How an Era of Spiritual Openness Shapes the Way We Live and Help Others Follow Jesus
• The Wisdom Hacker website
• The Wisdom Hacker Instagram
• WisdomWorks
• Barna Group
• Ask Us Anything: info@denisonforum.org
• Sign-up for a Denison Forum newsletter: DenisonForum.org/subscribe

About Mark Matlock

Mark Matlock is the Executive Director of Urbana for InterVarsity Christian Fellowship and a Senior Fellow at Barna. Mark's research provides insights into younger generations, cultivating resilient disciples, and knowing the pulse of your city. As the founder of WisdomWorks, he has helped national and international faith-based organizations adapt to changing times by turning data and research into strategic action. Mark coauthored Faith for Exiles with David Kinnaman and, most recently, authored Faith for the Curious: How an Era of Spiritual Openness Shapes the Way We Live and Help Others Foll