Episode Details

Wall Street may be climbing, but underneath the rally, interest rates, AI spending, consumer stress and enormous capital expenditures are creating one of the most unusual investment environments in years.

On this episode of ⁠Wayve Wire⁠, host ⁠Todd M. Schoenberger⁠ is joined by Wayve Capital CEO Joe Besecker and CIO Rhys Williams for a wide-ranging discussion about where the economy and financial markets could go next.

Besecker zeroes in on one of his biggest concerns: the rapid rise in Treasury yields. He argues that history shows sharp moves in the 10-year yield have often preceded periods of financial stress, from previous market disruptions to the 2023 regional-bank turmoil. His concern isn't necessarily that another crisis is inevitable—but that higher rates are increasing pressure throughout the financial system.

For households and small businesses, the consequences are already much more tangible. Besecker points to housing, construction and borrowing costs as areas feeling the pressure, while noting that massive AI infrastructure projects may be far less sensitive to incremental changes in interest rates.

Williams sees an American economy increasingly divided between those benefiting from asset appreciation and those struggling with higher everyday costs. He argues that the upper portion of consumers remains in relatively strong shape, while the bottom half faces much greater pressure. More importantly, Williams believes the current expansion is unusual because it is increasingly capital-spending driven rather than consumer driven.

Then comes the biggest Wall Street question: Can the AI investment boom survive higher rates?

Williams argues that AI infrastructure spending can continue because the economics are ultimately about the returns companies can generate from scarce computing capacity. He points to strong demand even for older generations of Nvidia chips as evidence of a compute-constrained environment and says companies are likely to keep “feeding the beast” as long as those economics persist.

The conversation also examines the U.S.-China relationship, critical minerals and America's dependence on global supply chains. Besecker argues that the United States needs a better balance between global sourcing and domestic production, while Williams notes that developing new domestic mineral capacity can take years—meaning the relationship with China remains economically important in the meantime.

Are 5% yields the market's next breaking point—or can the AI capital-spending boom overpower the pressure coming from higher rates? Besecker and Williams break down the risks, opportunities and signals investors should be watching now.

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