Episode Details

Growing Pains and AI Search: Getting Beyond the Founder

Jason Wade with Tim Campsall and Rick Tousseyn

You wanted the business to grow. Now it has, and somehow you’re working more than ever. Every decision needs your approval, employees keep coming back with questions, and taking a day off feels harder than it did when you started. Tim Campsall calls this the “Messy Middle”—the point where the business has outgrown the way its owner works.

Jason Wade brings Tim together with OtterlyAI researcher Rick Tousseyn to explore what growth requires inside a company and how AI is changing the way customers discover it. Tim works with owners who need to reclaim their time and build capable teams. Rick tests what makes businesses appear in AI-generated answers. Their perspectives meet around a practical challenge: making what you know accessible to people and systems beyond yourself.

Tim explains why he starts with a two-week time study. Before an owner hires someone or adds another tool, they need to understand where their attention goes. He describes a familiar pattern: an owner tries delegating, the handoff fails, and they conclude nobody else can do the job properly. Often, the missing piece is a documented process. Recordings, walkthroughs, and AI-assisted instructions can help turn years of personal experience into guidance someone else can follow.

The conversation takes an unusual turn when Jason describes his “Jason AI Wade” name experiment. Rick checks how AI presents the story from Belgium, and the group examines the podcast listings and websites it draws on. The exchange raises questions about how online repetition becomes apparent authority, particularly when several sources originate with the same person.

Alongside the experiments, Jason and Tim discuss local relationships, event sponsorships, and the value of giving employees clear authority to solve problems. They also consider what happens when a business depends on an owner who suddenly cannot work. Across the conversation, growth becomes a question of building something other people can understand, find, and help run.

Jason Wade — Host and Founder of BackTier
Jason Wade is an entrepreneur, podcast host, and founder of BackTier. His work explores how businesses and individuals are discovered and represented through AI-powered search. He brings experience in e-commerce and hands-on visibility experiments to conversations about business growth, content, and credibility. BackTier

Tim Campsall — Business Coach and The Messy Middle Guy
Tim Campsall is an Indiana-based business coach who helps owners navigate the demands of a growing company. Known as The Messy Middle Guy, he focuses on the transition from managing everything personally to leading a business supported by clear processes and a capable team. His approach begins with understanding how owners spend their time and what keeps pulling them into daily operations. Coaching videos and resources

Rick Tousseyn — AI Researcher at OtterlyAI
Rick Tousseyn is a Belgium-based AI researcher at OtterlyAI, where he studies how brands become visible and earn citations across AI search platforms. He designs experiments around content, publishing, and discovery, testing common marketing assumptions and sharing what succeeds, what fails, and what remains uncertain. OtterlyAI research

• Jason Wade: BackTier

• Tim Campsall: Business coaching videos and resources

• Rick Tousseyn: OtterlyAI ·

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