Episode Details

What do leaders need to understand about how beliefs shape people's responses to change? Kevin sits down with Owen Fitzpatrick to talk about the idea of "inner propaganda" and why changing beliefs requires more than logic, evidence, or data. Owen explains that for a new belief to take hold, it first needs to feel right, fit with a person's identity, and then make sense. They discuss five kinds of truth—objective, past, emotional, shared, and desired—and how they shape how people see the same situation differently. Owen also shares why our brains can act as "double agents," the idea of the "inner dictator." Kevin and Owen go into how leaders can challenge these internal stories by asking whether a belief is useful and helping them achieve what they want.

Owen's Story: Owen Fitzpatrick is the author of Inner Propaganda: Leading Hearts and Minds Through Turbulent Times. He is a social psychologist who has studied propaganda firsthand in North Korea, Rwanda, and Afghanistan. He studied the science of influence at Harvard and MIT. His TEDx Talk has been viewed more than 1.4 million times, and he has delivered keynotes and leadership training for organizations like Google, LinkedIn, Citibank, Morgan Stanley, and Coca-Cola across 33 countries. He is also an award-winning filmmaker and storyteller.

Connect with Owen Fitzpatrick

• http://www.innerpropaganda.com/
• https://owenfitzpatrick.com/
• https://www.linkedin.com/in/owenfitzp/
• https://owenfitzpatrick.com/podcast/
• https://www.facebook.com/ofi23
• https://x.com/owenfitzp
• https://www.instagram.com/owenf23/
• https://www.youtube.com/user/owenjf23

Timestamps 0:00 Intro 1:26 Meet Owen Fitzpatrick 2:44 Why Owen wrote Inner Propaganda 5:25 The big idea: a belief has to feel right first 8:30 Why this matters for AI adoption 9:53 Why "propaganda," and what belief leadership means 13:31 The five kinds of truth 18:11 Alan Mulally, Ford, and the red slide 20:40 Your brain is a double agent 23:27 Challenging your inner dictator 25:22 Who do we want to be now? 27:31 What Owen is reading 30:48 Where to find Owen and the book 32:14 Now what?

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