Episode Details
Back to EpisodesFeed Swap: Beneath the Apology — Shame, Image & the Illusion of Empathy with Renee Swanson & Dr. Mazella
Description
Why does their apology leave you feeling like the one who did something wrong? \
Continuing this week's feed swap, I'm sharing a conversation from Renee Swanson's Covert Narcissism Podcast — this time a guest interview with Dr. Anthony Mazzella, a psychodynamic therapist and host of The Narcissism Decoder.
Together they get underneath the behavior to the "why," unpacking what they call the illusion of empathy: the moment an apology looks like remorse but is really about image control.
A note: this is part of an ongoing series on guilt and shame, so you'll hear Renee and Dr. Mazzella reference earlier conversations and tease the next one — you can follow the whole thread on Renee's feed.
Be gentle with yourself as you listen, and reach out to a trusted person or support resource if any of it hits close to home.
Find more of Renee's work and her coaching at covertnarcissism.com.
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Resources
- The Complete Recovery Collection: Narcissistic abuse resources
- First Steps to Leaving: Online self-paced digital course
- Toxic-Free Relationship Club: Live coaching & community support
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Kerry Kerr McAvoy, Ph.D., an author and educator, helps listeners decode toxic dynamics, recognize manipulation, and rebuild self-trust.
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This podcast/video is for educational purposes only. It does not constitute therapy, counseling, or professional mental health advice, nor does listening create a doctor-patient or therapist-client relationship. If you or someone you know is in immediate danger, please call 911 or contact the Suicide & Crisis Lifeline by calling or texting 988 (US/Canada).