Episode Details

I'm delighted to welcome two next-level guests to the podcast: Dr. W. Brad Johnson and Dr. David G. Smith, authors of Fair Share: How Men and Women Can Create a More Equitable Workplace Together. Between them, Brad and David have spent decades researching mentoring, sponsorship and male allyship, and this conversation is a masterclass in why "today's workplace is broken" and what it will actually take to fix it.

We dig into the archaic 20th-century workplace built for men with a stay-at-home partner, why senior leaders often can't imagine anything different, and the granite wall dads hit the moment they ask for the same flexibility mums are expected to need. Brad and David unpack the real meaning behind their book's title, fair share for women at work, fair share for men at home, and why degendering caregiving policy might be the single biggest lever we have. We also get into how to call out workplace "sludge" without putting people on the defensive, why personal connection changes minds faster than any business case, and what each of them would do with a magic wand to smash the motherhood penalty for good.

This is a rich, generous conversation for anyone who wants practical tools, not just more research, on building genuine workplace equity.

In This Episode, You'll Learn:

• Why Brad and David call today's workplace "the 20th century workplace," and why it hasn't caught up with modern families
• The implicit bias behind why "caregiver" almost always conjures the image of a mother
• Why senior male role models taking their full parental leave matters more than any policy on paper
• What "fair share" really means: fair share of pay and opportunity for women, fair share of caregiving for men
• How to engage men in gender equity work without making it feel like a compliance exercise
• The power of personal connection in shifting a senior leader's perspective, and the story that changed one CEO's whole approach to caregiving
• Two simple strategies for calling out workplace "sludge" without making anyone feel targeted
• Why mandatory, degendered parental leave could be one of the fastest ways to close the motherhood penalty
• Brad and David's magic wand answers: universal childcare and fully degendered caregiving leave

Check out https://www.workplaceallies.com/ to find out more about Brad and David's work

Connect with Emma

This podcast was funded and created by Emma Mclean, the founder of Works for Everyone. Emma Mclean is a mum of three and founder of Works for Everyone, a professional development business that partners with NZ's leading corporates to help them retain and grow their working parent talent. She does this through innovative leadership programmes, executive coaching and keynote speaking. She founded her business in 2019 following a 20-year career in corporate strategy where she experienced first-hand how hard it was to have a career and a family. As an impatient optimist when it comes to system change, she launched her successful podcast "How to Smash the Motherhood Penalty" in 2023 where she talks to humans who are actively working to change the system that creates financial penalties that only mothers pay. And in 2024 she launched the first NZ Part Time Power List, to shine a light on those senior roles in NZ that are career building, not side stepping.

To work with Emma or enquire about speaking: emma@worksforeveryone.co.nz

www.worksforeveryone.co.nz

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https://www.linkedin.com/in/emma-mclean-9176217/