Episode Details

After seven chapters on personal failure, John Maxwell finally turns the lens outward, and the implications for church leaders are significant. Because here's the thing: your team members probably aren't afraid of failing. They're afraid of you when they do.

In this episode, Jonathan Malm and Jason Young dig into Chapter 8 of How to Get a Return on Failure, exploring what it actually looks like to lead a team through failure, not just survive it yourself. Jonathan opens up about teaching his five-year-old to lose at chess, a team member who nervously brought him honest feedback, and why the phrase "they need to pay their dues" is one of the most insecurity-revealing things a leader can say. Jason reflects on what it was like to work for leaders who only ever talked about their wins and what that quietly communicated to everyone around them.

In this episode, you'll learn:

• Why higher-level leaders are often more okay with failure than lower-level ones
• How to create psychological safety before a failure happens, not after
• Why sharing only your wins quietly tells your team they're the only ones struggling
• The power of sharing the messy middle, not just the transformation story
• Why failure is an event, not a person and how to lead your team to actually believe that
• How closing the learning curve gap for others is one of the most powerful things a leader can do
• Why the relay race metaphor exposes what's wrong with most generational leadership in churches

Plus an honest conversation about why churches preach "no perfect people allowed" but rarely show anyone mid-struggle, and what that does to the people on your staff.

📥 Download the free Failure Debrief Tool at churchstaffbookclub.com