Episode Details

Legendary Democratic strategist Tad Devine — a senior adviser to Bernie Sanders' 2016 campaign and a veteran of multiple presidential campaigns — joins the Chuck Toddcast with a new book and a provocative thesis: the Democratic Party actively screwed Bernie Sanders, and in doing so screwed itself. Devine says he got angrier and angrier as he wrote the book, revisiting how Sanders couldn't get booked on the Sunday shows for years, how the nominating process was rigged in Hillary Clinton's favor by a party establishment that gave far too much weight to insiders and superdelegates, and how roughly half of Obama's 2008 supporters migrated to Bernie in 2016. Devine wrestles honestly with the central tension of Sanders' relationship to the party: Bernie would never actually register as a Democrat (unlike Zohran Mamdani, who embraced the label), begrudgingly agreeing only to put "Democrat" next to his name, describing his agenda as the "second agenda of Benjamin Franklin" and understanding perfectly well that the word "socialism" is toxic to many voters even as he refused to abandon it. The what-ifs are tantalizing: Devine argues that if Bernie had been declared the winner of Iowa on caucus night in 2016, the whole race might have unfolded differently, and that if Sanders had won the first three states, the establishment would have mobilized to stop him by any means necessary.

The conversation broadens into a sweeping critique of how Democrats choose their nominees and what the party needs to reform. Devine argues the party must give voters far more control over nominations, that the primary calendar is one of the most important and underappreciated parts of the entire process, and that independents should be allowed to participate in either party's primary rather than being forced to register months in advance. He credits Sanders with hitting on the enduring insight that the system is rigged against working people — a message supercharged after the Supreme Court unleashed the flood of money into politics following Obama's election — and makes the striking counterfactual case that Bernie would have beaten Trump in 2016 because, unlike Hillary Clinton, he could credibly run as a change candidate, and the white working-class vote wouldn't have broken so heavily toward Trump. Devine muses that Sherrod Brown would have made a strong running mate for Sanders, wonders aloud whether Bernie would ever have said yes to Clinton as a running mate, and argues that electing Bernie would have been a powerful national reckoning. He's clear-eyed about the party's deeper problem — the DNC is fundamentally risk-averse, and politics is about taking risks.

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Timeline:

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00:00 Tad Devine joins the Chuck ToddCast

01:15 Why do you say that the Democrats screwed Bernie?

02:30 Got more and more upset while writing the book

04:00 Sanders couldn’t get booked on the Sunday shows for years

06:45 Half of Obama’s supporters went to Bernie

07:45 Obama didn’t learn the fundamental lesson of his own campaign

09:45 The nominating process was rigged by the Democratic party

10:45 Gore didn’t control the party until he became the nominee in 2000

13:00 Why not play favorites when Bernie wouldn’t register as a Democrat?

13:45 Mamdani said he was Democrat, Bernie never would

15:00 Bernie begrudgingly agreed to Democratic Party next to his name

16:30 Bernie described his agenda as “2nd agenda of Benjamin Fra