Episode Details

Safety first? Not so fast.

In this episode, Chris sits down with Tom Zimmer — outdoor adventurer, professor at Wyoming Catholic College, and founder of CORE Expeditions — to explore why calculated risk isn't just healthy, it's necessary for raising saints.

Tom leads seminarians, college students, and everyday people on grueling 21-day backpacking trips through the Wyoming wilderness — not to make them mountaineers, but to build grit, resilience, and the kind of boldness it takes to live the Catholic faith in a soft world.

In this conversation, you'll discover:

- Why the vocation crisis might be connected to kids not climbing trees anymore
- How "safety first" culture has slowly made us physically, spiritually, and emotionally weaker
-The stunning story of a seminarian who begged to be airlifted off a mountain — and what happened when he wasn't
- Why St. John Paul II's boldness with the communists may have been formed in the mountains
- Practical first steps to introduce more healthy risk into your life and your kids' lives

This episode will challenge the way you think about comfort, courage, and what it really takes to become a saint.

HIGHLIGHTS
0:00 — "Safety second" — Chris's wild story feeding a 16-foot saltwater crocodile
4:20 — How Wyoming Catholic College uses 21-day wilderness trips to form the whole person
8:25 — Why being a Catholic is risky — and why that's a feature, not a bug
13:00 — The vocation crisis and the tree-climbing crisis: are they connected?
17:55 — Three reasons today's society has almost zero risk tolerance (lawsuits, media, and safety culture)
24:15 — What vocation directors told Tom: "Our seminarians don't have grit"
26:54 — The seminarian who offered $10,000 to be airlifted off the mountain — and what happened next

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Learn about COR Expeditions: https://www.corexpeditions.org/

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Chapters

• (00:00:00) - Living On The Edge
• (00:00:50) - Missionaries of Joy
• (00:01:27) - Tom Zimmer on Safety First
• (00:04:07) - Wyoming Catholic College's Risk-Taking
• (00:06:29) - Core Expeditions: Risk in the Outdoor Industry
• (00:10:59) - "Don't Be Soft"
• (00:11:30) - Mission of Joy
• (00:16:59) - Core Expeditions: Making Strong Men and Women
• (00:17:38) - Do We Think We're More Dangerous Than We Were in the 90
• (00:20:53) - How To Raise Kids Safely
• (00:24:14) - Grit in the Spirit of Seminary
• (00:27:43) - The Parable of the Backpacking Trip
• (00:31:11) - Risk Is Essential For Being a Saint