Episode Details

“ We have a Constitution that's almost impossible to amend but it must change to preserve the constant. And the mechanism for change is that we reinterpret it to keep it true, that it reflects our deepest values and highest aspirations. If we did not reinterpret it, there would arise a dissonance between what we think the Constitution says and who we think we are and who we are as Americans is a people who do not tolerate that dissonance.” - Richard Primus

Welcome to The Oral Talmud, our weekly deep dive chevruta study partnership, discovering how voices of the Talmud from 1500 years ago can help us rethink Judaism today. 

What if the law isn’t what it says but what we need it to say to remain who we are? In this episode, Benay and Dan speak with constitutional law scholar Richard Primus to crack open a question that cuts across traditions: when we interpret sacred texts, whether the Torah or the Constitution, are we uncovering meaning or creating it?

What follows is a collision between legal theory and lived reality. Originalism, precedent, moral intuition, narrative, none of them stay in their neat boxes. Instead, they reveal something more unsettling: the system only holds if we keep it alive. This episode doesn’t just compare Jewish law and American law, it exposes the deeper game that both are playing. The text doesn’t control us. We’re the ones deciding what it means and whether it still speaks for who we are.

Richard Primus is the Theodore J. St. Antoine Collegiate Professor of Law at the University of Michigan Law School, where he teaches the law, theory, and history of the U.S. Constitution. His work on the relationship between history and constitutional interpretation won a Guggenheim Fellowship in Constitutional Studies in 2008. He’s also one of my college roommates and one of my closest friends, so this is an exciting one for me! And I know that it will be for you as well.

Find an edited transcript and full show notes (references and further reading) on The Oral Talmud webpage for this episode! Access the Sefaria Source Sheet to explore key Talmud texts and find the original video of our discussion. The Oral Talmud is a co-production of Judaism Unbound and SVARA: A Traditionally Radical Yeshiva. If you’re enjoying this podcast, please help us keep both fabulous Jewish organizations going with a one-time or monthly tax-deductible donation at oraltalmud.com. You can find a donate button on the top right corner of the website.