Episode Details

In this episode, I'm talking with Natalie Davis — former DOJ trial lawyer, polyamory advocate, and author of Saying Yes: My Adventures in Polyamory — about what it actually looks like to build a life that doesn't follow the relationship script most of us were handed.

Natalie has been with her husband since they were teenagers. They have an adult son. And over the past two decades, they've navigated swinging, open relationships, and fully polyamorous partnerships — together and separately. Today, she lives in a home with her husband and his long-term girlfriend, her metamour, while also dating outside the house. It works. And she's here to explain exactly how.

We talk about the moment her husband first suggested opening their marriage, why her initial reaction was a hard no, and how she moved through fear and structure-loving resistance into something that genuinely expanded her world. She breaks down the differences between swinging, open relationships, and polyamory, shares what jealousy actually looks like when it shows up (and when it doesn't), and explains the safer sex elevator speech that everyone — monogamous or not — should be using.

We also get into the real stuff: how her marriage stays strong when both partners are emotionally and physically connected to other people, what she told her son, how coming out as polyamorous affects friendships and family, why she's now fighting for legal protections for non-monogamous people, and what it's like to date much younger men after decades of marriage.

This is not a conversation about blowing up your life. It's a conversation about questioning what you were taught, being honest about what you want, and realizing that love doesn't always have to look one way.

In This Episode:

00:00 What If You Were Never Taught Monogamy Was Optional?

01:50 Meet Natalie Davis: DOJ Lawyer Turned Polyamory Advocate

04:20 How Her Husband First Brought Up Opening Their Marriage

07:40 Natalie's Arc: From Hard No to Saying Yes

11:30 Swinging vs. Polyamory — What's the Actual Difference?

16:00 Dating Separately for the First Time After Decades of Marriage

19:15 Her First Real Poly Relationship — and What She Didn't Expect

22:45 Inside a Swingers Club: What It's Actually Like

26:25 The Safer Sex Elevator Speech Everyone Should Know

30:00 Living with Her Husband's Girlfriend: The Resident V Setup

33:35 Does She Ever Get Jealous? Honestly?

36:15 What Her Son Knows — and How He Feels About It

39:00 Coming Out as Polyamorous: Friends, Family, and Strangers Online

41:45 Dating Much Younger Men After 40

44:05 Is Polyamory an Orientation or a Choice?

46:50 Fighting for Legal Protections for Non-Monogamous People

48:20 Where to Find Natalie and Her Book

Want a deeper look? Watch the full episode on YouTube for a more visual experience of today’s discussion. This episode is best enjoyed on video—don’t miss out!

Karen Bigman, a Sexual Health Alliance Certified Sex Educator, Life, and Menopause Coach, tackles the often-taboo subject of sexuality with a straightforward and candid approach. We explore the intricacies of sex during perimenopause, post-menopause, and andropause, offering insights and support for all those experiencing these transformative phases.

This podcast is not intended to give medical advice. Karen Bigman is not a medical professional. For any medical questions or issues, please visit your licensed medical provider.

Looking for some fresh perspective on sex in midlife? You can find me here:

Email: