Episode Details

Jessica Zwaan, VP People Strategy & Operations at Leapsome and author of Built For People, joined us for another MPL Build AMA. 

This time we talked about how to redesign your People team if you're running your team like a product team, why metrics like internal promotion retention matter more than traditional HR KPIs, and more.

----  

Sponsor Links:

🔗 Explore the 2026 ​Deloitte Human Capital Trends Report

🔗 Learn more about Intuit QuickBooks Payroll at QuickBooks.com/workforce

MPL Links:

🔗 Go sign up for MPL Build.

----  

(06:00) Building Internal AI Tools: From Non-Technical to Product Thinking

(09:00) The HR Paradox: More Strategic Power, More Emotional Pressure

(12:00) Why Most Employees Don’t Understand Company Strategy

(15:00) The Real Problem Isn’t AI — It’s Communication and Leadership

(19:00) How the CPO Role Changed After COVID and AI Acceleration

(22:00) Short-Term vs Medium-Term Thinking in High-Speed Organizations

(25:00) Trust, Transparency, and Decision-Making in Uncertain Environments

(27:00) Why Scaling HR Strategy Is Harder in Established Companies

(29:00) The Death of Traditional Career Paths and Org Hierarchies

(32:00) Why the CPO Role Is Still Misunderstood at the Executive Level

(34:00) Saying No: The Most Underrated Skill in HR Leadership

(36:00) HumanOps vs Strategic Work: Where HR Should Actually Focus

(38:00) Aligning AI Strategy with Business Outcomes (Not Just Tools)

(40:00) The “So What?” Framework for Driving Real Impact

(44:00) Why Most Companies Are Building the Wrong AI Stack

(45:00) AI as a Product Advantage: Driving Strategy Through Use Case

(46:00) When AI Adoption Becomes Non-Negotiable for Employees

(48:00) Why Long-Term Planning Is Dead (and What Replaces It)

(49:00) Rethinking Headcount: Hiring vs Rebuilding Roles with AI

(52:00) Where AI Will Actually Replace Work in HR

(54:00) Stop Thinking Roles — Start Thinking Workflows

(55:00) Rebuilding Teams for Human + AI Collaboration

(58:00) The End of the SaaS Hiring Playbook

(59:00) New Metric That Matters: Revenue per Employee

(01:01:00) The Risk of “AI Tech Debt” from Poor Implementation

(01:02:00) Why Every Company Will Face AI Pressure Soon

(01:03:00) HR as Crisis Management: The Reality of the Role

(01:05:00) If HR Isn’t in the Room Early, You’ve Already Lost Influence

---- 

📬 Subscribe to our weekly newsletter to get episode recaps

💡 Follow The Modern People Leader on LinkedIn

😊 Follow Daniel Huerta on LinkedIn

😊 Follow Stephen Huerta on LinkedIn

---- 

Past guests on MPL include Brené Brown, Annie Dean (VP of Team Anywhere, Atlassian), Josh Bersin, Katie Burke (Chief People Officer, Harvey), Liz Fosslien, Helen Russell (Chief People Officer, HubSpot), Dave Scott (Chief People Officer, ADT), Melanie Rossenwasser (Chief People Officer, Dropbox), Crystal Boysen (Chief People Officer, Sprout Social), and many more.