Episode Details

Yale political scientist Ian Shapiro — author of the new book After the Fall — joins the Chuck Toddcast for a wide-ranging conversation about the missed opportunities of the post-Cold War era and what it would take to actually fix what's broken in the global political economy. Shapiro argues America fundamentally squandered its chance to integrate Russia into the West after the Soviet collapse — there should have been a Marshall Plan for Russia along the lines of what was done for Germany and Japan after World War II, and both Yeltsin and Putin (in his early years) actively lobbied to join the Western order. Clinton was hesitant to help Russia economically, the 1994 midterm results pushed him away from foreign policy ambition entirely, and the eventual pivot toward NATO expansion in Eastern Europe — rather than transforming NATO into something genuinely inclusive — froze Russia out and is exactly when Putin's worldview hardened into the revanchism we're dealing with today. Shapiro extends this analysis to 2008, calling the financial crisis another massive missed opportunity: Obama had to bail out the banks, but his failure to insist on a parallel bailout for Main Street allowed the elites to rescue themselves while imposing austerity on everyone else, which directly fueled the right-wing populism now reshaping politics across the West.

The conversation pivots to what comes next. Shapiro is clear that the good policies of the 2030s won't be a rehash of the New Deal — they need to address modern realities. He argues governments need to help workers be flexible rather than redistributing wealth through politically toxic taxation, advocating instead for portable health insurance and portable child care that follows the worker. Shapiro makes a forceful case for immigration as the only realistic answer to America's demographic challenges, noting that Spain and Poland are economically outperforming much of Europe specifically because they've embraced immigration to support aging populations. He warns that we're living in a world disturbingly similar to the 1930s — if ordinary people don't benefit from economic growth, they will not continue supporting the existing order — and notes that right-wing populists don't actually have answers; they just attack the elites. Shapiro argues Trump is inadvertently benefiting China enormously, but cautions that authoritarian governments are fundamentally bad at managing complex economies, so it's still unlikely China's model wins the 21st century. Shapiro closes by warning that the anti-Trump coalition has become too big to govern, but that if Zohran Mamdani succeeds in New York, it could meaningfully energize progressive politics nationally — proof that the road forward requires real ideas about power, not just opposition to Trumpism.

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Timeline:

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00:00 Ian Shapiro (After the Fall) joins The Chuck ToddCast

01:30 How long did you work on the book?

03:15 The lack of a Marshall Plan for Russia was a missed opportunity

04:00 Russia should have been dealt with like Germany & Japan after WW2

05:00 Yeltsin & Putin lobbied to join the west & we blew that opportunity

06:15 Clinton was hesitant to help Russia economically

07:30 ‘94 midterm results dissuaded Clinton from focusing on foreign policy

09:00 Clinton pivoted from rapprochement NATO expansion in eastern Europe

10:00 There were