Episode Details

There is a kind of strength the world applauds, and a kind that quietly costs you everything. For women in the fire service, showing up strong every single day is not a choice, it is a survival strategy. But what happens when you retire, the structure disappears, and you are left holding a question nobody trained you for: who am I now?

In this episode, Yusuf sits down with Deena Johnson Lee, the first female fire chief in the South Bay region of Los Angeles County. Deena opens up about moral injury, the exhaustion of constantly proving yourself in a male-dominated field, the identity collapse that can follow retirement, and the slow, honest work of rebuilding yourself from the inside out. This conversation is for anyone who has ever worn strength like armour, and quietly wondered when they would get to take it off.

Deena Johnson Lee is a retired fire chief, coach, and advocate for women in the fire service. She served with the El Segundo Fire Department for over 20 years, rising from firefighter to the first female fire chief in the South Bay region of Los Angeles County, a position she held from 2021 until her retirement in April 2023. Now known as The Feminist Fire Chief, she coaches and mentors women firefighters and first responders, helping them build internal authority, recover from moral injury, and navigate the identity shifts that come with leaving the service.

• Being the strong one has a hidden cost. First responders learn to compartmentalise and set their humanity aside on the job. That emotional suppression does not disappear. It accumulates, and it often only surfaces after retirement, when the structure is gone and the feelings finally arrive.
• Moral injury is real in the fire service. The term describes the slow, accumulated damage of abandoning parts of yourself, internalising shame, and never being allowed to be seen fully. It is different from PTSD and often goes unrecognised, especially in women.
• The validation has to come from within. The deeper truth Deena discovered was that much of her proving herself was not just for the men around her. It was for herself. Building internal authority and a strong self-concept is what allows you to stop outsourcing your worth.
• The identity shock after retirement is real and largely invisible. When the job has been your whole identity, leaving it can feel like a kind of death. Many first responders, men and women alike, stay connected to adjacent roles just to avoid facing the question of who they are without the uniform.
• Suppressing your feminine self to fit in is its own form of loss. Women in male-dominated workplaces often hide the parts of themselves that do not fit the culture. Children, softness, vulnerability. Reclaiming those parts after years of suppression takes deliberate, compassionate work.
• Purpose is not found. It is designed. After retirement, Deena discovered that looking under every rock for her next purpose was not working. She had to intentionally design what came next, and she circled back to what mattered most: coaching and mentoring women so they do not have to flounder alone the way she did.

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