Episode Details

What if the defining revolution of Earth's history wasn't led by animals or humans, but by flowers? Are we truly individuals, or are our bodies and minds just walking ecosystems?

Our guest today is David George Haskell, a biologist who has spent much of his life training himself to see the universal within the infinitesimally small. He's famously sat for a year in a single square meter of Tennessee's forest, a mandala experience that revealed the deep history of the world through a single fallen leaf. He's a two-time finalist for the Pulitzer Prize for his books The Forest Unseen and Sounds Wild and Broken, and he received the John Burroughs Medal for The Songs of Trees.

His work often focuses on what he calls the unwaged labor of the natural world, the complex biological communities that sustain our planet without a monetary ledger. And his latest book is How Flowers Made Our World. In it, he argues that we are essentially grass apes dependent on the ancient innovations of flowering plants for two-thirds of our daily calories.

(0:00) How Flowers Made Our World

The incredible ancient history of flowers on Earth

(4:56) Contemplating the Small

Expanding our world by restricting our gaze

(14:30) The Illusion of Individuality

Why atomism is false and interconnectedness is the foundation of life

(26:08) We Are Grass Apes

The evolutionary origins of humans and our dietary dependence on grass

(33:32) Memories of His Childhood in Paris & Wild Orchids

(38:55) The Networked Intelligence of Forests

How trees communicate and share resources beneath the soil

(44:00) The Earth in Full Song

Tracing the sonic history of our planet

(51:08) The Practice of Listening

Why tuning in to the natural world is crucial for our survival

(1:01:21) Silence Without Expectation

Sitting with nature without demanding progress or enlightenment

(1:11:01) Transforming Ourselves

Why personal change matters in the fight for the climate

(1:15:20) Escaping the Screen