Episode Details

What if the church's discipleship problem isn't new — and the answer has been hiding in plain sight for two thousand years?

In this episode of Complex Creatures, Rev. Dr. Jarrod Longbons sits down with theologian and educator Dr. Alex Fogleman — Associate Dean for Special Programs and Assistant Professor of Theology at Trinity Anglican Seminary, founding director of the Catechesis Institute, and director of the Catechesis Task Force for the Anglican Church in North America — to explore his new book Making Disciples: Catechesis in History, Theology, and Practice (Eerdmans, 2025).

Catechesis — from the Greek katēcheō, meaning to instruct or resound — isn't just a category of religious education. It's a whole way of forming people into a way of life. Not just knowing, but becoming. And in a world where nominal Christianity is everywhere but deep formation is rare, Alex argues this ancient practice is exactly what the church needs to recover.

Together, Jarrod and Alex explore:

• Why catechesis is about becoming, not just knowing — and what we lose when we treat faith as information transfer
• How secularized contexts (like Vancouver, BC, where only 2% attend church) are actually forcing the church back to something essential
• What the early church got right about the "bridge" between pagan and Christian culture — and how it applies today
• Why AI might be able to teach content, but will never be able to catechize
• The hearth versus central air — why formation is always relational, never merely digital
• What it would look like for every church to take catechesis as seriously as worship

Alex's one-sentence definition of his own book says it all: catechesis is the basic but comprehensive instruction in what Christians believe, hope, and love.

That phrase alone is worth the conversation.

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