Episode Details

In this episode of Proof of Pain, Tony sits down with Richard Byworth, Chairman at Future Holdings and an active participant in the H100 expansion into Switzerland. We talk about Bitcoin treasury companies, MSTR’s capital markets evolution, preferreds vs convertible bonds, and whether “paper Bitcoin” is a real concern.

We also cover why Bitcoin denominated convertible bonds matter for smaller treasuries, what private companies can do if they cannot access capital markets, what retail misunderstands about treasury stocks, and Richard’s BTC outlook for 2026 and 2030.

What we cover• Richard’s path from Nomura and convertibles to Bitcoin• MSTR’s flywheel and why converts created stock sellers• Preferreds vs convertibles and why the strategy shifted• Small BTCTCs in bear markets and the Bitcoin denominated convert path• Private company playbook for stacking BTC responsibly• Paper Bitcoin, futures, and short term market pressure• BTC targets for end of 2026 and end of 2030

Chapters

0:00 Intro

0:18 Richard’s TradFi background

15:25 Finding MSTR through pension constraints

19:30 Why Saylor shifted away from convertibles

23:52 Flywheel for smaller BTCTCs

25:54 Bitcoin denominated converts (XCE)

34:12 Why 2024 to 2025 expectations broke

37:43 Paper Bitcoin explained

41:20 Lightning round

44:03 BTC targets

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@RichardByworth on X@tonycarrera on X@ProofOfPainBTC on X

YouTube video link of this episode:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I2SMlxLALZI