Episode Details

What do you do when faith feels dry, confusing, or emotionally barren—when God seems absent, or even uncomfortably near? In this episode of the Thinking Christian Podcast, Dr. James Spencer talks with Dr. Noelle Forlini-Byrte, author of God in the Desert: A Spiritual Theology of Wilderness in the Old Testament and part-time lecturer at Samford University, about the wilderness as a spiritual landscape for real Christians living real lives.

Noelle shares how this book was “twenty years in the making,” beginning with her first spiritual formation class and early encounters with the mystics—especially St. John of the Cross and the theme of God’s “dark night” and felt absence. Those questions followed her into doctoral work in the Old Testament, where narratives like Jacob wrestling at the Jabbok, the exile, and Israel’s wilderness wanderings became a rich theological map for suffering, disorientation, and divine encounter.

James and Noelle explore why the church often defaults to two unhealthy extremes: shallow, pithy “application” divorced from biblical context—or scholarship so clinical that it leaves the soul malnourished. Noelle argues that liturgy and scholarship must belong together: rigorous exegesis should not be an escape from spiritual formation, and devotional practices should not ignore the actual meaning of the text. The goal is not information alone, but a scripture-shaped life where God excavates the soul.

Along the way, they discuss difficult Old Testament passages without smoothing out their discomfort—especially the wilderness as a place of testing (Deuteronomy 8) and purgation (Hosea 2). Noelle draws on the Christian mystical tradition to describe purgation as the stripping away of “self-made props,” the idolatries and illusions that quietly sustain us until wilderness exposes what we truly trust.

One of the most resonant themes is acedia—the “noonday demon” from the desert tradition: spiritual weariness, malaise, and the temptation to give up when faith becomes costly and daily life grinds us down. James connects acedia to midlife, family pressures, and the subtle exhaustion that comes not from one tragedy, but from “death by a thousand cuts.” Noelle suggests that the very presence of these questions can be a sign of a deeper, weathered faith—because wilderness presupposes we are actually walking with God.

The conversation closes with a challenge for the church today: humility, honest questions, and a willingness to let Scripture form us rather than simply confirm us. Faithful discipleship requires more than confidence—it requires wakefulness and the courage to bring our real lives before God.

You can get God in the Desert: A Spiritual Theology of Wilderness in the Old Testament at ivpress.com