Episode Details

In Session 324, Dr. Paulie Gavoni and Steve Ward join me to discuss what resilience actually looks like from a behavior science perspective — and why many well-intentioned adult responses can unintentionally teach avoidance instead of persistence.

We center our conversation around their book, S.H.I.T. Happens: Building Resilient Children in a Fragile World, which reframes resilience not as a personality trait or motivational slogan, but as a set of learnable repertoires shaped by the environments adults design

• Why resilience is a behavioral repertoire, not a mindset or personality trait
• The hidden ways adult anxiety shapes children's learning environments
• How overprotection and pressure both undermine skill development
• Designing "successful struggle" so kids contact reinforcement for effort
• Everyday moments — homework, sports, emotional setbacks — as resilience practice
• The adult's role as guide, not rescuer or drill sergeant
• Teaching recovery instead of avoidance
• Scaling challenges to build confidence and persistence
• Why discomfort is information, not danger

This discussion emphasizes practical decision-making: how small changes in adult behavior can create conditions where children learn to try again, persist longer, and experience the satisfaction of overcoming something difficult.

Whether you're a practitioner, educator, or parent, this episode highlights how resilience is built through repeated opportunities to struggle safely — and why those opportunities matter more than we often realize.

• Paulie and Steve's book
• Assent & Trauma Informed Care: A Call for Nuance in Behavior Analysis
• Motivational Interviewing: Getting Educator Buy-In (course)
• Adaptive Intelligence: The Evolution of Emotional Intelligence Through the Proven Power of Behavior Science
• Paulie's other books
• Kind Extinction: A Procedural Variation on Traditional Extinction
• The Four Leadership Hats: Applying Behavioral Science to Leadership and Supervision (

  Listen Now