Today's guest is Rep. Thomas Massie (R–Ky.). He joins Zach Weissmueller to discuss why he coauthored the Epstein Files Transparency Act, what motivated him to put his political career at risk, and why he believes the Justice Department (DOJ) has engaged in a long-running cover-up to protect powerful figures connected to Jeffrey Epstein.

Massie walks through what he saw while reviewing the unredacted files at the DOJ, including disputed redactions, internal FBI documents, and evidence suggesting that senior officials misrepresented whether Epstein had coconspirators. Massie also makes the case for why Attorney General Pam Bondi may be guilty of criminal negligence in her handling of this investigation. The interview explores internal Republican divisions over the case, why Massie has called for the resignation of Commerce Secretary Howard Lutnick, and how the Epstein case has reshaped his understanding of power in Washington, D.C. Massie argues that this scandal is larger than Watergate, spans four administrations, and raises a defining moral test for politicians, media figures, and voters alike.

The Reason Interview with Nick Gillespie goes deep with the artists, entrepreneurs, and politicians who are defining the 21st century in terms of individual freedom and autonomy.

0:00—Why Massie is risking his political career over Epstein files

3:53—Discoveries from the unredacted files

8:22—Are DOJ redactions in compliance with the Epstein Files Transparency Act?

12:32—Examining the evidence of an Epstein client list

15:13—Why Howard Lutnick should resign

17:57—The risk in releasing names and guilt by association

21:49—Why the Epstein conspiracy is bigger than Watergate

23:30—The future of the Republican Party

Transcript

This is an AI-generated, AI-edited transcript. Check all quotes against the audio for accuracy.

Zach Weissmueller: Congressman Thomas Massie, thank you for coming on The Reason Interview.

Thomas Massie: Well, great to be on. Thanks for having me.

Let's start by talking about the Epstein files. I don't think it's an exaggeration to say that you put your political career on the line to get these out with the Epstein Files Transparency Act you co-authored with Rep. Ro Khanna (D–Calif.). You've been under relentless attack from President Donald Trump ever since, and you're facing a serious primary challenge with a lot of financial backing because of it.

Did you expect this might happen? And if so, why did you decide this issue was important enough that it would be worth the cost?

Well, I'm glad you set it up that way because I always find it laughable when people say I'm just doing this for the politics. Look, I am getting the crap beat out of me politically for doing this. But, you know, the most popular politician in my state, who is President Trump—obviously it'd be a whole lot easier politically to get re-elected if I just did what he wanted and ignored the Epstein files and called them a hoax—but I'm not willing to do that.

I've met with the survivors. This is personal to me now. And so it's true that my political career is on the line—my political life—but my own health and well-being could very well be too. I've upset a lot of billionaires who obviously aren't of high moral character and have done some really shady stuff.

What first pulled you into this and made you decide, "This is something I do need to stake my career on"?

I saw Pam Bondi hand out the binders to the influencers, and we found out that was a nothingburger. And then I