Episode Details

"Scientists Announce Successful Experiment to Bankrupt Mouse That Can't Afford Cancer Drug." That's a recent headline from The Onion, which is, by the way, a funny satire newspaper, if you haven't heard of it. You could swap out "Cancer Drug" in that headline with "a Trip to the ER"—or pretty much any aspect of health care in this country.

No matter what health care service you stick in there as the potential cause for a mouse's bankruptcy, it's a pretty LOL headline, right? But the reason why it became a headline is because obviously it's based on a truth that resonates with your regular citizens in this country. Think about that. A critical mass of people around here believe that health care will bankrupt you. This is one of those sociological signals that has implications to health care leaders.

Here's another signal with implications. In this health care podcast, I'm interviewing the incomparable Marshall Allen. That's not the signal. His book, Never Pay the First Bill: And Other Ways to Fight the Health Care System and Win, a book with that title being on the New York Times best seller list, is the signal. Marshall's book is an instruction manual for patients on how to fight back against unfair and/or egregiously inaccurate bills.

This interview with Marshall Allen is different from others that you may be hearing. Marshall wrote a book to motivate patients, a critical mass of patients, to get empowered relative to their health care bills. Because listeners of this show are health care executives, I wanted this interview to be relevant to you. What does this book mean for you? Doug Aldeen told me one time, unless something has a direct impact on the CEO or leadership team at a health system or insurance company, they're just bored. Let me sum up this interview in one sentence: This is not boring.

If you want to skip to the exact examples of "not boring," you can skip ahead to about the 30-minute mark. We go through the ways that health systems can and probably will be hurt by the financial toxicity that they create. Here's the three-ish ways that Marshall and I talk about:

1. Doctors who no longer trust their employers (ie, the health systems they work for) leave and then you have to recruit new doctors—#problematicandexpensiveonanumberoflevels, but I don't need to tell you that.
2. Reputational damage. When the slogan on the door becomes a joke, that's a problem.
3. Employers and taxpayers reading best-selling books like this one and Marty Makary's (which also is or was just recently on the best seller list) and learning how to not be basically passive suckers anymore.

Marshall Allen investigates why we pay so much for health care in the United States and get so little in return. He is the author of the new book, Never Pay the First Bill: And Other Ways to Fight the Health Care System and Win. He is also the founder of Allen Health Academy, which produces a curriculum of short on-demand videos to equip and empower employees to navigate the health care system. Marshall has investigated the health care industry for 15 years, including a decade at ProPublica. He has also spent a decade as an educator at the Craig Newmark Graduate School of Journalism at The City University of New York. His work has been honored with many journalism awards, including some of the to