Episode Details

🎙️Is the Post-War World Order Already Finished? | David Bickford (Former MI5 & MI6)

What if the global order didn't collapse overnight, but quietly expired while we were still arguing about yesterday's rules?

Episode Description

For decades, global stability rested on assumptions we no longer question, until they stop working.

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In this rare and sobering conversation, Dov Baron sits down with David Bickford, former Under Secretary of State and Legal Director to MI5 and MI6, to examine what happens when institutions designed for a post-war world are forced to confront modern chaos.

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Despite what you've come to believe from your favorite spy movie, this is a conversation about how intelligence agencies actually think and operate, why they move slowly by design, and the psychological cost of maintaining stability in a world that no longer obeys familiar rules.

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David Bickford offers a grounded, unromantic look at:

• How intelligence agencies balance law, ethics, and survival

• Why institutional inertia is often mistaken for incompetence

• How modern geopolitics has outpaced Cold War frameworks

• Why democratic systems struggle to respond to asymmetric threats

• The uncomfortable trade-offs between transparency and security

• How nationalism, extremism, and grievance narratives gain traction

• Why certainty is more dangerous than ambiguity in intelligence work

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This conversation also explores the human side of power, including loyalty, moral injury, and the psychological toll of operating inside systems that must prioritize stability over ideal outcomes.

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This episode challenges simplistic narratives about good and evil, right and wrong, and exposes the emotional and structural realities leaders rarely speak about publicly.

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If you're looking for clean answers, this conversation will unsettle you. If you're willing to think more clearly about how power functions in reality, it will sharpen you.

🔥 In This Episode

• Why modern intelligence work is built on teamwork, not lone operatives • How outdated political assumptions distort present-day decision-making • Why NATO, alliances, and deterrence models are under psychological strain • The difference between informed intelligence and informed guesswork • How suppression and moral absolutism unintentionally fuel extremism • Why nuance is now one of leadership's most endangered skills

📚 Fiction as Truth-Telling

David also discusses his work as a novelist, including his acclaimed spy fiction and the upcoming release Cold Protocol, using storytelling to explore questions modern politics avoids:

• Loyalty vs conscience • Power and obedience under pressure • The emotional cost of secrecy • Moral ambiguity in times of instability

🔗 Resources & How to Connect

• David Bickford's website: https://davidbickfordcb.com

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• Learn more about the Katya T