Episode Details

State of the Second hosts Kaylee and John sit down with John "Chappie" Chapman, founder of the Task Force 70 Foundation. Chapman has been a law enforcement officer since 1992 and has spent most of that career as a SWAT operator and a trainer. He started his first civilian training company around 1998 after noticing there was not much actual force application training going on beyond the square range. Task Force 70 began about three years ago and went public roughly four months before this recording. Its mission is to train the small-town cops who get little or no training, the officers who make up the 70% of American law enforcement working for agencies that serve fewer than 10,000 people, often 12 officers or less. The foundation takes no government money, partners with GOA and Hillsdale College, and runs on private donations.

The conversation gets into why the gap exists. Chapman walks through the three levels of police training and explains that the large departments have gotten better at training over the last 20 years while the bottom 70% rely on second- or third-hand material with no full-time training guy. He draws a hard line between qualification and training: qualification is a standardized test that a person can safely manipulate a firearm and accurately hit a target, while real police shootings turn on decision making, prudence, legal understanding, and contextual processing. Shooting, he says, is only maybe 10% of gunfighting. The foundation teaches five topics, and the first is constitutional judgment, because officers are taught case law and amendments rather than the Constitution itself, the Federalist and Anti-Federalist Papers, and the original meaning behind the Second Amendment's "well regulated."

The episode also speaks directly to armed citizens. Chapman's advice for a traffic stop is plain: be polite, keep your hands where the officer can see them, and comply. The roadside is not the place to argue an unreasonable order; that fight belongs at the Article 3 level, in front of a judge. He tells CCW holders that having a permit is not training and urges them to seek contextual instruction, a force-on-force class, or a ride-along. He closes on trust between communities and their police, the idea that authority is responsibility rather than power, and a call for support at tf70.org/donate, where $20 a month funds training and enters donors in a monthly Bravo Company rifle giveaway.

Questions this episode answers

What is the Task Force 70 Foundation and why was it created?

It is a privately funded nonprofit founded by John "Chappie" Chapman to train small-town police officers who get little or no training. It targets the 70% of American law enforcement working for agencies that serve fewer than 10,000 people, often with 12 officers or less.

Why do most small-town police officers receive so little training?

Large departments have improved their training over the last 20 years, but the bottom 70% rely on second- or third-hand material and have no full-time training staff. Most small agencies lack the resources for the kind of contextual instruction officers actually need.

What is the difference between firearms qualification and real training?

Qualification is a standardized test that proves a person can safely manipulate a firearm and accurately hit a target. Real police shootings turn on decision making, prudence, legal understanding, and reading context, and Chapman says shooting is only about 10% of gunfighting.

How should an armed citizen handle a traffic stop or police interaction?

Chapman's advice is to be polite, keep your hands where the officer can see them, and comply. The roadside is not the place to argue an unreasonable order; that fight belongs in front of a judge at the Article 3 level.

Why does the foundation teach the Constitution instead of just case law and amendments?

Officers are usuall