Episode Details

In this profound conversation with animal rights lawyer Wayne Hsiung, we explore the reasons for his journey into seminary studies, his wife Rose Patterson’s upcoming legal battles for rescuing beagles from MBR Acres and sheep from King Charles’s farm in the UK, and the potential watershed moment for ending animal experimentation with RFK Jr.’s recent statements as Secretary of Health and Human Services calling for its end.

This episode explores:

• How Wayne’s wife, Rose Patterson of Animal Rising, faces potential prison time for rescuing 18 beagles from MBR Acres and three lambs from King Charles’s farm
• Wayne’s unexpected journey into seminary studies and how religious frameworks might strengthen the animal rights movement
• The promising development of RFK Jr. publicly calling for an end to animal experimentation, describing it as “useless” and profit-driven
• How building effective social movements requires institutional scaffolding that can sustain momentum during periods of change
• Wayne’s evolving theory that improving “movement intelligence” and cooperation between activists may be key to animal liberation

ABOUT OUR GUEST

Wayne Hsiung is an animal rights lawyer, former faculty member at Northwestern School of Law, and co-founder of The Simple Heart Initiative. He has led teams that have investigated and rescued animals from factory farms and slaughterhouses across the globe and has organized successful campaigns to ban fur in San Francisco and California. He served as lead counsel (and, sometimes, defendant) in five “right to rescue” trials in which activists were prosecuted after being charged for giving aid to sick and dying animals, garnering media attention from The New York Times. He is also a co-founder and former lead organizer of the grassroots animal rights network Direct Action Everywhere. 

Wayne’s work has been covered by WIRED, ABC’s Nightline, and on

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