Episode Details

Mike Pesca, host of “The Gist” joins Chuck Todd for a wide-ranging conversation about the state of media, technology, and trust at the end of 2025—and where things may be headed next. They dig into how legacy media is being reshaped by new owners, shrinking business models, and audience capture, with a close look at CBS, the Ellisons, and whether disruption is a threat or a lifeline for traditional news brands. Pesca also reflects on the rise of nonprofit journalism, the limits of AI in reporting, and why Congress has largely abdicated its role in regulating both media and tech.

The discussion then turns to the growing unease around AI, gambling, and prediction markets, from bipartisan support for getting smartphones out of schools to fears that unregulated betting is distorting journalism, sports, and public life. Pesca and Todd explore why optimism around AI is collapsing, how insider information can be exploited in everything from sports gambling to political markets, and why many of today’s “innovations” feel eerily similar to past technological panics. The throughline: institutions are lagging behind rapid change, and the cost of that delay is showing up everywhere—from newsrooms to classrooms to democracy itself.

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Timeline:

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00:00 Mike Pesca joins the Chuck ToddCast

01:30 Rundown of Mike’s many “hustles”

03:15 Is the information ecosystem better or worse at the end of 2025?

04:30 CBS News under Bari Weiss is now selling a different product

06:00 Legacy media could benefit from some disruption

06:45 Weiss gave up working for the Salzbergers to work for the Ellisons

07:30 There’s no money in producing network news

09:45 There was audience capture at the New York Times

11:00 A boring president will make the Ellisons care less about CBS

13:00 David Ellison isn’t ideologically MAGA or even a Republican

14:00 Silicon Valley is less ideological, just want less regulation

14:45 Ellisons are treating CBS as part of their lobbying budget

15:45 A huge part of 60 Minutes popularity is that it airs after football

16:30 CBS has brands that will survive even if the network doesn’t

17:45 We’re a few years away from local TV affiliates going a-la-carte

19:00 Channel numbers are meaningless to younger audiences

19:30 Non profits like ProPublica are doing some of the best journalism

20:45 AI can’t replace people in the journalism space

21:45 NOTUS is the only organization covering DC locally

23:15 Historically, American media has been partisan

24:00 Big newspapers should have two editorial sections

26:30 Imagine if Bezos built an “everything” newspaper like he did Amazon

28:00 AI transition will be painful, fear of AI displacement will dominate

28:45 New polling shows huge drop in optimism surrounding AI

30:15 Sam Altman shocked the world by saying “Please regulate me”

31:15 We need more visibility into how