Episode Details

Indivisible’s Ezra Levin and Hungarian organizer László Upor share creative, community-driven tactics — from joyful protests to bold campus actions — that pushed back against autocratic agendas. Their message: you have more power than you think.

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Description: If you care about resisting autocracy and building democracy, the U.S. has much to learn from Hungary. While Donald Trump rails against Europe, he and Hungary’s strongman leader, Viktor Orbán, have praised each other for years. Anti-democratic, anti-immigrant, anti-woman, anti-queer — Orbán and Trump came to power on parallel tracks with similar values. In their first interview together, Ezra Levin, the co-founder of Indivisible (the group behind No Kings!) and László Upor, a leader in one of Hungary’s most creative and visible resistance efforts, share their experiences of resisting authoritarianism. Upor is former Vice Rector and Acting Rector of the University of Theatre and Film Arts in Budapest — the one university that fought back when the Orbán administration began taking control of Hungary’s universities. Levin is the co-founder and co-executive director of Indivisible, the grassroots movement behind such protests as the historic Hands Off and No Kings rallies. From the principles of their organizing to frog suits and caution tape, today’s episode is a masterclass in creative resistance. Plus a commentary from Laura.

“Our enemy in this isn't Trump, it's not the Republicans. It's not the broader regime. Our enemy is this sense of cynicism or fatalism or nihilism . . . I do think a core principle in our communication philosophy is convincing people, you have power, you just gotta use it. The best way to use it is in concert with a lot of other people in your community.” - Ezra Levin

“You have to laugh at them, not be afraid of them . . . They don't understand mirth. They don't understand the derision. They think they are invincible. And when we don't give in, they don't understand what's going on.” - László Upper

Guests:

• Ezra Levin: Co-Founder & Co-Executive Director, Indivisible

• László Upor: Former Vice Rector & Acting Rector, University of Theatre and Film Arts (SzFE), Budapest, Hungary

Listen to the full uncut conversation in this podcast feed.

Watch the episode released on YouTube, PBS World Channel, and on over 300 public stations across the country (check your listings, or search here via zipcode). Listen: Episode airing on community radio (check here to see if your station airs the show) & available as a podcast.

Full Episode Notes are located HERE.

Music Credit: “Give In to What is Real” by STR4TA from their album Aspects released on Brownswood Recordings, "Steppin" by Podington Bear, and original sound design by Jeannie Hopper

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