Episode Details

Rumble link Bitchute link

Ori Goldberg, an Israeli Middle Eastern Studies scholar with a focus on Iran, got my attention with his eloquent protests against the Gaza genocide. I emailed him, opening with “Your country may have lost its humanity but I’m glad you haven’t.” Below is a transcript of the beginning of our conversation.

Kevin Barrett: Welcome to Truth Jihad Audiovisual. I'm Kevin Barrett, looking all over the world for people with something important to say that the mainstream isn't attending to. I've been doing that now for, what, two decades plus. And now I am going to Israel, of all places, to talk to Ori Goldberg. I've been looking for an Israeli I can relate to. And most of the Israelis I can relate to have left—people like Gilad Atzmon and Miko Peled. But Ori is still there, and I've been following his X/tweets for a week or so. And they are really eloquent and beautiful. And so I saw his background is actually similar to mine, former academician and Middle East Studies PhD. And we both are kind of disgusted with our own countries and outside of academia now. So I found somebody I can relate to. Hey, welcome, Ori. It's good to have you.

Ori Goldberg: It's just great to be here, Kevin. It's very kind of you to think of me and thank you for all those kind words. Yeah, I know just as well as you do that good conversation is often hard to find and these days much, much more difficult than it was a while ago. So I'm very, very grateful for the opportunity.

Well, I'm grateful for what you've been saying. People can get arrested these days for saying uncomplimentary things about the genocidal Zionist entity. Even just that phrase, maybe it'll get me stopped at the next European airport I go through. And there you are in the belly of the beast, putting out this very, very eloquent…you're not pulling any punches.

Thank you but in a sense it's easier for me than it might be for you because in the belly of the beast, as you say, I am not even a negligible minority. Of course there are people in Israel who think like me and write and talk and try to protest and do all sorts of things, but we really have absolutely no popular sway. And in that sense, it's better to let us spout off than to arrest us, especially since we're Jewish, right? If I was a Palestinian, I would most likely have already been arrested.

Because I'm Jewish, I serve two purposes. I let it be seen that Israel is capable of hearing criticism and dealing with it, not having a tantrum when faced with criticism from Israelis. And also, I demonstrate the resilience of Israeli democracy. We've got freedom of speech here. Anybody can say whatever they want. And it's a cost-benefit analysis, ultimately. I was actually told this by organs of state security that they don't care. They read me. They know what I'm saying. They don't care. They're all for my right to express myself freely.

So it’s easier for me than it is for somebody in Germany, for example, or maybe even in the United States or Australia. Nobody pays any attention to me in Israel. I tweet in English, but that's not the reason. The reason is that... I don't think most of the stuff that I and people like me are saying is something Israelis are capable of even hearing, let alone processing.

I can relate to what you're saying. My background is that I was teaching Intro to Islam etc.—I'd finished my Phd in 2004 Just as I was finishing that I discovered problems with the off