Today's guest is Helen Lewis, a British journalist and podcaster who is a staff writer for The Atlantic. Her new book is The Genius Myth: A Curious History of a Dangerous Idea, and it explores how the definition of what it means to be a genius has changed radically over the centuries, how it became linked to all sorts of weird biological theories, and how Elon Musk has come to personify genius in our time (and whether his failure at the Department of Government Efficiency spells the end of his genius moment). Lewis and Reason's Nick Gillespie also talk about The Beatles; William Shockley, who turned to racial science after winning a Nobel Prize for helping to invent the transistor; and her notorious 2018 interview with Jordan Peterson for British GQ, which has racked up over 70 million views.

0:00— Introduction

1:36— The Genius Myth

7:20— How dead geniuses fueled national myths

11:30— Thomas Carlyle and the Great Man theory

18:18— Are inventions inevitable?

23:22— Francis Galton and eugenics

33:35— Pro-natalism and declining fertility rates

37:14— William Shockley

48:00— Shakespeare and The Beatles

57:22— Jackson Pollock, Lee Krasner, and the gender dimensions of genius

1:03:50— Lewis' Jordan Peterson interview

1:07:18— Germaine Greer and second wave feminism

1:11:05— The gender debate in the UK vs US

1:14:14— Elon Musk's rise and fall?

1:20:57— Do geniuses have second acts?

Upcoming events:

• Reason Versus debate: Jacob Sullum and Billy Binion vs. Charles Fain Lehman and Rafael Mangual, June 24
• Reason Speakeasy: Nick Gillespie and Elizabeth Nolan Brown on the MAHA Movement, June 25

Transcript

This is an AI-generated, AI-edited transcript. Check all quotes against the audio for accuracy.

Nick Gillespie: Hel