Episode Details

Dustin Jensen – Spouse of Danielle’s colleague. Grew up in rural Washington, mostly white communities. He attended Christian schools through college. Became a pastor and left ministry after 12 years. Joined the local government shipyard to make money. Married, has three kids. Is on a journey to rediscover his faith and personal growth. 

Krishon Allen – Native New Yorker, currently residing in Maryland with his wife and two daughters. Following is time in the US Navy he began a personal relationship with Christ. Faith is a driving force in his life. He is currently an Assistant Program Manager for the Naval Sea Systems Command and is the process of building a faith-cased coaching and mentoring program. 

These friends talk about current events and racial relations and reconciliation.  They were first connected in 2017 where they were both selected to be a part of a Naval leadership development cadre in Washington DC. It was through this training that they began to forge a friendship and engage in deep meaningful conversations. 

Dustin said when he met Krishon he was in a place where we was challenging ideas in his life: his faith, his posture towards race and his view of women…. So that when he entered the leadership program he wanted to challenge himself, he wanted and made a conscious choice to be with people who were different than him, who didn’t look like him. He wanted to be in a different relationship and had a posture of learning and listening. 

Krishon acknowledged that on the surface is didn’t look like they had a lot in common but they were both husbands and fathers who were away from their families. The friendship was cultivated through mutual interests.  The time in DC made it easy to continue their relationship when they left their time. 

They talked and emailed for those two years up until COVID and then they started weekly ZOOM calls. It was Dustin who added the dynamic of listening to podcasts and discussing books. The discussions have been challenging. 

Dustin said there was a deepening and a continuing of their relationship that may not have come naturally before they added outside content to their discussions. It was a new layer of vulnerability that they intentionally leaned into. They chose to engage and be willing to engage in those difficult conversations within the safety of their friendship.

The first thing that Dustin did as he began to engage in difficult conversations and in building trust in his relationship was admitting there were things he didn’t know. He walked alongside his wife going to grad school and he questioned and challenged things she was learning along the way. So to come into a cross-racial relationship we have to change our posture: there are thing you don’t know, and you don’t know that you don’t know them until you engage someone else’s pain and struggle.

For Krishon it wasn’t difficult to engage with Dustin because of his own upbringing. He said he didn’t to make anything easy and just “coast” for the sake of building relationship. 

Dustin acknowledged that Krishon is not responsible for Dustin’s journey as a white person, but Krishon has been willing to engage and go along with Dustin on the journey. It was a willingness to go along together.

[Long gap 12:42-48]

Danielle says our area is really white and they met in a different part of the country that is very different from Kitsap and more diverse. That is the challenge for our area in the NW, that while there are people of color, there aren’t many. The importance is looking at the diversity within the whole country. There is power is looking at another person’s face, it humanizes them. And you become more human to each other. 

Dustin says after living in (and loving) a culturally and rac