Episode Details

"There’s almost no story of the future going well that doesn’t have a part that’s like '…and no evil person steals the AI weights and goes and does evil stuff.' So it has highlighted the importance of information security: 'You’re training a powerful AI system; you should make it hard for someone to steal' has popped out to me as a thing that just keeps coming up in these stories, keeps being present. It’s hard to tell a story where it’s not a factor. It’s easy to tell a story where it is a factor." — Holden Karnofsky

What happens when a USB cable can secretly control your system? Are we hurtling toward a security nightmare as critical infrastructure connects to the internet? Is it possible to secure AI model weights from sophisticated attackers? And could AI might actually make computer security better rather than worse?

With AI security concerns becoming increasingly urgent, we bring you insights from 15 top experts across information security, AI safety, and governance, examining the challenges of protecting our most powerful AI models and digital infrastructure — including a sneak peek from an episode that hasn’t yet been released with Tom Davidson, where he explains how we should be more worried about “secret loyalties” in AI agents.

You’ll hear:

• Holden Karnofsky on why every good future relies on strong infosec, and how hard it’s been to hire security experts (from episode #158)
• Tantum Collins on why infosec might be the rare issue everyone agrees on (episode #166)
• Nick Joseph on whether AI companies can develop frontier models safely with the current state of information security (episode #197)
• Sella Nevo on why AI model weights are so valuable to steal, the weaknesses of air-gapped networks, and the risks of USBs (episode #195)
• Kevin Esvelt on what cryptographers can teach biosecurity experts (episode #164)
• Lennart Heim on on Rob’s computer security nightmares (episode #155)
• Zvi Mowshowitz on the insane lack of security mindset at some AI companies (episode #184)
• Nova DasSarma on the best current defences against well-funded adversaries, politically motivated cyberattacks, and exciting progress in infosecurity (episode #132)
• Bruce Schneier on whether AI could eliminate software bugs for good, and why it’s bad to hook everything up to the internet (episode #64)
• Nita Farahany on the dystopian risks of hacked neurotech (episode #174)
• Vitalik Buterin on how cybersecurity is the key to defence-dominant futures (episode #194)
• Nathan Labenz on how even internal teams at AI companies may not know what they’re building (episode #176)
• Allan Dafoe on backdooring your own AI to prevent theft (

  Listen Now