Episode Details

Ron Moen and Cliff Norman, of Associates in Process Improvement (API), discuss their similar experiences where first introduced to Dr. Deming, their paper "Evolution of Deming's System of Profound Knowledge" and finally the "journey of learning" through the lens of SoPK, that Dr. Deming left the world.

Ron and Cliff start with an introduction on their first meeting with Dr. Deming; how he challenged what they knew and had learned and dramatically changed their thinking and lives going forward.

The main focus of the podcast summarizes the paper Cliff and Ron will publish next year about the evolution of The Deming System of Profound Knowledge, from it's beginnings when Dr. Deming was introduced to Shewhart in 1927 until his death in 1993. Listen as they walk us through Deming's own learning, starting with SQC (Statistical Quality Control) to SQC for Management (which he taught to the Japanese) through the tremendous growth in the 1980's after the NBC White Paper "If Japan Can...Why Can't We?" Deming's learning continued through multiple versions of the 14 points, Seven Deadly Diseases and the four elements of Profound Knowledge. Deming's work culminated with his greatest contribution, the theory and interaction between the four elements, which became The Deming System of Profound Knowledge.

The last portion of the Podcast focuses on the journey of learning. Dr Deming, said, "I make no apologies for learning" as his message changed and evolved throughout his life. The teachings continue to impact Ron and Cliff in their lives and work and this research provides fascinating insight into Dr. Deming's personal journey of learning.

[00:00:15] This episode, Ron Moen and Cliff Norman discuss the evolution of Dr. Deming's 14 points system of profound knowledge and his learning.

[00:00:28] Hi, I'm Tripp Babbitt, host of the Deming Institute podcast. Our guests today are Ron Moen and Cliff Norman of Associates and Process Improvement. Welcome, gentlemen.

[00:00:40] Hello.

[00:00:42] Can you share a little bit about API and what you do?

[00:00:47] Ok, I'll start. This is Ron, I started in nineteen eighty five, three of us, Tom Nolan and like all those myself, we worked together and Department of Agriculture. So we left USDA and started our organization. We were doing a lot of work with academic seminars. So we started and then we we had three more members join in 1987 and 88.

[00:01:12] That would be with Norman, who on the call with us today, and Kevin Nolan and Jerry Langley. And we've basically been together now for nearly 30 years. So we just had a little celebration for 30 years.

[00:01:30] So congratulations, really.

[00:01:33] Any comments about the.

[00:01:35] I just think the is sort of interesting. We don't really exist as a business trip. We exist literally as a learning organization. My wife, Jane, when we're asked by clients, can give an example of a learning organization. She always gives API because we exist to do research and writing together and as improvement advisors and consultants if we run out of knowledge without out of work. And so it's been an organization that exists to cooperate in learning. A great example of a learning organization.

[00:02:08] Ok, great, great. I appreciate it. So how did you both come across the Deming philosophy, Ron? I'm as I mentioned earlier in a conversation, I'm familiar with you from The Reckoning and a number of the books even Out of the Crisis. You're mentioning there are a couple of times. So starting with you, how did this all develop with you and Dr. Deming?

[00:02:33] For me, it was in graduate school at the University of Missouri, I went to a American Statistical Association meeting in Montreal in 1971.