Episode Details

People will plan a wedding for months, spend tens of thousands on it, and hire a planner, a caterer, a photographer. Then, Mardi Winder-Adams points out, they try to unwind the entire marriage in a couple of months with no help at all. That mismatch is where a lot of high-conflict divorces go wrong.

Mardi Winder-Adams is a divorce transition coach and certified high-conflict divorce coach who has worked as a mediator for nearly thirty years, along the way serving as a domestic violence client advocate and an executive and leadership coach. She founded Positive Communication Systems and hosts the podcast The D Shift.

In this conversation, Mardi and Lisa make the case for building a team, and for why the instinct to do it yourself, fast, and cheaply usually backfires. They talk through choosing the right attorney, and why the aggressive fighter you think you want often means more motions, more years, and six figures in fees. Mardi draws on Bill Eddy's idea of positive and negative advocates, the people who steady you versus the ones she calls chaos cheerleaders, who are often your own well-meaning friends and family, and explains why a lower-key, well-respected attorney can defuse a high-conflict opposing counsel better than a brawler.

They also get practical about the traps: making sure the decree carries real deadlines and consequences instead of loopholes a difficult ex can exploit, why a life-insurance clause needs a date attached, and why being awarded the house can collapse if you cannot qualify for the mortgage. Mardi's throughline is one Been There Got Out shares: do not be so focused on being fair that you fail to ask for what you actually need.

As always, this is strategic education, not legal or mental-health advice for your specific situation.

🎓 What you'll learn

• Why the do-it-yourself, do-it-fast instinct usually backfires in divorce
• How much of a divorce team (realtor, lender, financial consult) actually costs nothing
• Why the aggressive "pitbull" attorney often means more years and higher fees
• The difference between positive advocates and the "chaos cheerleaders" in your life
• Why a low-key, well-respected attorney can defuse a high-conflict opposing counsel
• The decree traps to close: enforcement deadlines, and a dated life-insurance clause
• Why "awarded the house" can fall apart if you can't qualify for the mortgage

⏱️ Chapters
0:00 Intro
1:00 Is it ongoing high conflict, or just anger?
5:00 The wedding-vs-divorce mismatch, and why you need a team
7:00 How much of the team actually costs nothing
9:00 Choosing the right attorney (an intimate relationship)
11:00 Why the "pitbull" attorney costs you more
17:00 Positive advocates vs. "chaos cheerleaders"
23:00 How a low-key, respected attorney defuses high conflict
27:00 Staying in lockstep with your lawyer, and parenting apps
31:00 Don't be so "fair" you fail to ask for what you need
33:00 Mortgage traps, and closing loopholes in the decree

Keep going 💜
Book a free 30-minute discovery call and we'll help you map your next steps: https://beentheregotout.com/call
📘 Been There Got Out: Toxic Relationships, High-Conflict Divorce, and How to Stay Sane Under Insane Circumstances — https://www.amazon.com/dp/194627495X
📘 Been There Got Out: When Your Ex Turns the Kids Against You (our parental-alienation book) — https://www.amazon.com/dp/1967674183
🔗 Mardi Winder-Adams at Divorce Coach for Women: https://www.divorcecoachforwomen.com/

About Been There Got Out
Chris Barry and Lisa Johnson are high-conflict divorce, custody, and co-parenting strategists, and the founders of Been There Got Out. They know these cases from the inside: both have successfully represented themselves in family court. Few attorneys have a playbook for a case lik