Episode Details

Today we are honored by a second visit from Tahn Pamutto, who first appeared as a podcast guest on November 4, 2024, where he described his transition from a soldier in Iraq to an ordained Buddhist monk. He also gave us a taste of Buddhist teachings, and compared them to what we to in TEAM-CBT.

There were certainly a number of areas of overlap. For example, as a psychiatrist, my goal is often to help bring patients as rapidly as possible from a state of unhappiness and depression to a state of joy and enlightenment, using a number of specific psychological techniques we call TEAM-CBT. But part of this is spiritual in nature as well.

Tahn's role as an ordained Buddhist monk is similar, in part. His goal is help people who ask for guidance how to discover the cause of unhappiness, and the path to happiness, using a number of spiritual exercises, including meditation. But part of these exercises are psychological as well.

Today, Tahn began by contrasting a spiritual vs a materialistic view of life, and emphasized that the materialist view cannot solve the problem of unhappiness or provide us with happiness. This is, in part, because material things are impermanent, and will all ultimately disappear.

Negative feelings, like unhappiness, actually result from our thoughts--how we view the world. The world is the world, and you can accept that, or you can protest and shout angrily that things "should" be different or "shouldn't" be the way they are, but your feelings will always result from the way you think about the world.

He said that when he was growing up, all his needs were taken care of, and happiness was fleeting, so he embarked on a search for answers. Who was I, and why was I struggling with so much unhappiness?

He said,

"To explore and really find out who I was, I'd have to depart from my comfort. When I joined the army, it sounded great. It was all about patriotism, loyalty, honor, service, and all kinds of positive values. . .

But then at some point, they say that's time to invade this or that country, and you have to try to make that work, since you can't challenge the mission. The Iraq war was going on, and I spend 13 months there.

But if your mission is wrong, you will keep suffering, no matter how hard you try. Did the people in Iraq really want us there? Are we really doing anything that's positive or good?

And what is it that I really want to do with my life?

One thing we have to recognize is two things that cannot be denied: our mortality and the existence of unhappiness. As I began to accept these two inevitable facts, I also realized that there is no quick solution, and that the reality is that our unhappiness may not end on its own. We may go to sleep, and escape for a while, but when we wake up, we will still be unhappy. We could even imagine being reincarnated and having a different body, a different religion, or living in a different time, but our suffering still won't change. I may be a different person, but I will still be unhappy.

I asked myself if and how I could train myself to accept what life brings me. . . and wondered whether is would be possible to pursue unending happiness? And if so, how would I go about it? What I do?

When I was in Iraq, I applied for conscientious objector status and eventually got out on an early retirement. Then, I began looking for an experienced, humble teacher who could share their knowledge with me.

I bought a backpack and some hiking shoes, and began to search so I could learn what I needed to learn. I didn't have much knowledge of Buddhism at all at that time.

I left my mother's house in New Jersey and started walking. I walked 20 miles, but realized I was going in the wrong direction, and had to walk 20 miles back and start over, walking in the opposite direction.