Episode Details

Children in an amicable divorce sometimes tell Dr. Jill Leibowitz about the perks. Two rooms. Two sets of things. They will name the hard parts too, but they are not sunk by it. What sinks them is conflict between the parents, and the reason is that a child in the middle of it has no control over anything and no way to say so.

Our guest this episode is Dr. Jill Leibowitz, a clinical psychologist with a private practice in New York City. She does play therapy with young children, talk therapy with adolescents and adults, and dyadic work with a parent and infant together to support early attachment. She also teaches and supervises graduate students, and she is the author of two children's books built around the itsy-bitsy spider that give kids and the grown-ups reading with them a way to talk about big feelings.

In this conversation, Jill lays out what separation looks like from a child's side: feeling unheard, feeling responsible for each parent's feelings, hiding that they had fun at the other house so it will not hurt yours. She and Lisa talk about the parent who is terrified their child will absorb an abusive parent's model of relationships, and why a child having their own experience of that parent, over years, is what lets them eventually sort out what is theirs and what was put there.

They cover the subtle forms of exposure most parents do not count as exposure, the case for the parent getting their own therapeutic support before the child gets theirs, and what it does for a child when you can say out loud that you cannot fix this and you do not blame them for being angry about it.

As always, this is strategic education, not legal or mental-health advice for your specific situation.

🎓 What you'll learn

• What separation looks like from a child's perspective, and why control is the thing they lose
• The forms of exposure parents miss: side comments, phone calls, social posts, and text threads
• Why your child needs their own relationship with their other parent, separate from yours
• How other trusted adults and a therapist change what a child ends up concluding
• Why your own therapy can matter more right now than getting your child into therapy
• What to do when your child's behavior triggers a reaction that belongs to your ex
• Why letting your child be angry at you often lowers the anger instead of raising it

⏱️ Chapters
0:00 Intro
1:00 Meeting Dr. Jill Leibowitz, and what play therapy does
3:00 What divorce looks like from a child's perspective
5:00 No control, no voice, and feeling caught between two parents
7:00 Bad partner, good parent, and your child's separate relationship
11:00 Why your child is not destined for damage
13:00 Keeping the conflict away from your child
15:00 The subtle versions: side comments, phone calls, texts kids read
19:00 Whose therapy matters more right now, yours or your child's
23:00 When your teenager's behavior reminds you of your ex
27:00 Letting your child be angry at you, and Jill's books

Keep going 💜
Book a free 30-minute discovery call and we'll help you map your next steps: https://beentheregotout.com/call
📘 Been There Got Out: Toxic Relationships, High-Conflict Divorce, and How to Stay Sane Under Insane Circumstances — https://www.amazon.com/dp/194627495X
📘 Been There Got Out: When Your Ex Turns the Kids Against You (our parental-alienation book) — https://www.amazon.com/dp/1967674183
🔗 Dr. Jill Leibowitz at Real Talks Everyday: https://realtalkseveryday.com/
🔗 Dr. Jill Leibowitz on Instagram (@realtalkseveryday): https://www.instagram.com/realtalkseveryday/

🎧 More with Dr. Jill Leibowitz on this podcast
Ep 345: Code-Switching Kids and Co-Parenting Mistakes

About Been There Got Out
Chris Barry and Lisa Johnson are high-conflict