Episode Details

There is a common assumption that mediation is only for couples who still get along. Joy Rosenthal spends her days proving otherwise. She keeps high-conflict couples in the same room and helps them reach agreements, and she points out that mediation is one of the few things in life that is both cheaper and better than the alternative.

Joy Rosenthal is a mediator and collaborative lawyer in New York City and a family law professor at CUNY School of Law. Before opening Rosenthal Law and Mediation, she spent about a decade representing children and teenagers in foster care, work that left her convinced the best thing she could do for kids in a divorce was help their parents learn to solve problems together. She is a past president of the Family and Divorce Mediation Council of Greater New York.

In this episode, Joy explains how she screens every client for domestic violence, how someone in an abusive dynamic can sometimes use mediation to get out more safely, and when they should not. She and Lisa talk through why she keeps both parties together rather than shuttling between rooms, why she caps sessions at about two hours, and how she reframes blame into a conversation about what happens next. She lays out collaborative law as a support-heavy middle path, and why, under no-fault divorce, proving the other person was the bad one rarely changes the result.

Joy also tells the story of the mediation she most regrets, an all-day, commercial-style marathon that pressured a client into signing an agreement under duress, and how it shaped the careful, humane way she runs a session now.

As always, this is strategic education, not legal or mental-health advice for your specific situation.

🎓 What you'll learn

• Why a mediator who wasn't first a litigator may run a calmer, more productive room
• How domestic violence screening works in mediation, and when mediation is and isn't safe
• Why keeping both people in the room can beat the shuttle style that pressures a deal
• Why a two-hour session beats an exhausting all-day marathon
• How a mediator reframes "you did / I didn't" into a forward-looking conversation
• What collaborative law offers when the power imbalance is real
• How to interview a mediator before trusting them with your family

⏱️ Chapters
0:00 Intro
1:00 From foster-care lawyer to divorce mediator
5:00 Preserving the co-parenting relationship, not just winning
7:00 Screening for domestic violence, and when mediation still fits
11:00 Lawyers in the room, or not
15:00 Turning the past into a forward-looking conversation
19:00 Reading the room: body language and power imbalance
21:00 Collaborative law as a middle path
23:00 Mediating with the kids in mind
27:00 How to find and interview a mediator
33:00 Shuttle vs. keeping everyone together, and the case she regrets

Keep going 💜
Book a free 30-minute discovery call and we'll help you map your next steps: https://beentheregotout.com/call
📘 Been There Got Out: Toxic Relationships, High-Conflict Divorce, and How to Stay Sane Under Insane Circumstances — https://www.amazon.com/dp/194627495X
📘 Been There Got Out: When Your Ex Turns the Kids Against You (our parental-alienation book) — https://www.amazon.com/dp/1967674183
🔗 Joy Rosenthal at Rosenthal Law & Mediation: https://www.joyrosenthal.com/
🔗 Joy Rosenthal on Instagram (@joymediator): https://www.instagram.com/joymediator/

🎧 More with Joy Rosenthal on this podcast
Ep 68: How Divorce Mediation Actually Works
Ep 70: The Four Things Every Divorce Must Settle
Ep 120: Protecting Your Kids in a High-Conflict Divorce

About Been There Got Out
Chris Barry and Lisa Johnson are high-conflict divorce, custody, and co-parenting strategists, and the founders of Been There Got Out.