Episode Details

In honor of Women's History Month, please enjoy this episode of the International Spy Museum's SpyCast podcast featuring part 2 of Andrew Hammond's discussion with Dr. Ursula Wilder of the Central Intelligence Agency.

Summary

Dr. Ursula Wilder (LinkedIn) joins Andrew (X; LinkedIn) to discuss the intersections between psychology and intelligence. Ursula is a clinical psychologist with over two decades of experience working at the Central Intelligence Agency. 

What You’ll Learn

Intelligence

• How psychology can be useful to national security
• Historical examples of leadership analysis 
• Leadership personality assessments & the Cuban Missile Crisis
• Psychoanalytic theory and espionage 

Reflections

• Human nature throughout history
• History repeating itself 

And much, much more …

Quotes of the Week

“Together, these documents are quite powerful. The psych assessments are very, very carefully, tightly held and are classified at a high level. Every intelligence officer has this fantasy about seeing the file that's kept on them by the opponents.” – Dr. Ursula Wilder.

Resources 

SURFACE SKIM

*SpyCasts*

• Agent of Betrayal, FBI Spy Robert Hanssen with CBS’ Major Garrett and Friends (2023)
• The North Korean Defector with Former DPRK Agent Kim, Hyun Woo (2023)
• SPY@20 – “The Spy of the Century” with Curators Alexis and Andrew on Kim Philby (2022)
• “How Spies Think” – 10 Lessons in Intelligence with Sir David Omand (2020)

*Beginner Resources*

• What is Psychoanalysis? Institute of Psychoanalysis, YouTube (2011) [3 min. video]
• Psychologists in the CIA, American Psychological Association (2002) [Short article]
• 7 Reasons to Study Psychology, University of Toronto (n.d.) [Short article]

DEEPER DIVE

Books

• Freud and Beyond, S. A. Mitchell (Basic Books, 2016)
• Narcissism and Politics: Dreams of Glory, J. M. Post (Cambridge University Press, 2014)
• The True Believer: Thoughts on the Nature of Mass Movements, E. Hoffer (Harper Perennial Modern Classics, 2010) 
• Team of Rivals: The Political Genius of Abraham Lincoln, D. K. Goodwin (Simon & Schuster, 2004)
• Leaders, Fools, and Impostors: Essays on the Psychology of Leadership, M. F. R. Kets de Vries (iUniverse, 2003) 

Primary Sources 

• Charles de Gaulle to Pamela Digby Churchill (1942) 
• Blood, Toil, Tears and Sweat (1940)

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