Episode Details

Lisa picked up a novel, put it down partway through, and thought: this is my life, and it is our clients' lives. Then she emailed the author. That is how this episode happened.

Julie Clark is the author of The Lies I Tell and The Last Flight, both New York Times bestsellers, and of her first novel, The Ones We Choose. Her books tend to follow women in situations that would flatten most people, written deliberately with agency rather than helplessness. The Last Flight is about a woman married to a nationally beloved political figure who is abusive in private, and who assembles a whole new identity in order to vanish. The Lies I Tell follows Meg Williams, a con artist who works under assumed names and targets men who have used their power against people who could not fight back. Julie built both books on extensive research, including conversations with people who had lived through severe abuse, and she has been through a divorce herself.

She and Lisa spend most of the conversation on the mechanics of manipulation, which the novels lay out with unusual clarity. Mirroring, and why it registers as having met a soulmate. The way a skilled con artist identifies a deep want and then positions themselves as the only source of it. Why Meg's targets give her the money rather than having it taken, and what that does to any hope of prosecuting her. And the sideways approach, where she befriends someone in the target's circle first so that a real person will vouch for her.

The rest is the part that lands closest to home. Financial abuse as the engine of Meg's origin story, and as the pattern BTGO calls legal abuse when an ex hides assets and drags a case out until the other side gives up. Why people conclude in advance that they will not be believed. Malcolm Gladwell's default to truth, and Julie's view that ignoring a red flag is not a character defect. Where blame actually sits. And what she says to anyone still in it, which is to stop looking at the whole knot and do the next thing on the list.

As always, this is strategic education, not legal or mental-health advice for your specific situation.

🎓 What you'll learn

• What mirroring is, and why being mirrored feels like meeting a soulmate
• How someone identifies a deep want and then positions themselves as the only source of it
• Why a con artist's marks hand money over willingly, and what that does to prosecution
• The sideways approach: getting vouched for by someone already in your circle
• What to think twice about posting in a private group during a litigious divorce
• Malcolm Gladwell's "default to truth," and why missing red flags is ordinary
• Where blame belongs after abuse, and why it is not with the person it happened to
• The difference between what a person wants and what they actually need

⏱️ Chapters
0:00 Intro
1:00 Why Lisa reached out, and Julie's two novels
4:30 The research behind the abuse, and a system open to exploitation
8:30 Financial abuse, and the origin story behind Meg
10:30 Why people decide in advance they won't be believed
12:00 Mirroring, and why it feels like meeting your soulmate
14:30 Hunting a private Facebook group, and going in sideways
19:30 "Default to truth," red flags, and where blame belongs
22:00 Want vs. need, and writing a morally grey character
26:30 The pull of a gifted con artist, and love bombing
30:30 Where to find the books, and doing the next thing on the list

Keep going 💜
Book a free 30-minute discovery call and we'll help you map your next steps: https://beentheregotout.com/call
📘 Been There Got Out: Toxic Relationships, High-Conflict Divorce, and How to Stay Sane Under Insane Circumstances — https://www.amazon.com/dp/194627495X
📘 Been There Got Out: When Your Ex Turns the Kids Against You (our parental-alienation book) —