Episode Details

When you are in the middle of a divorce, it can feel like it will define the rest of your life. Ruth Chung, who sees these cases every day, wants you to hear that it won't. It is an event in your life, not the whole of it.

Ruth Chung is a matrimonial and family law attorney in New York City with a background in forensic psychology and years of bartending behind her, which is why Lisa calls her one of the unicorn lawyers who actually understand the psychology of a high-conflict case. This is her second conversation on the show, and it is less about courtroom mechanics than about the mindset that gets you through.

Ruth and Lisa talk about why marriage is the one contract people sign without ever reading the terms and conditions, and how to rebuild trust in your own instincts after an abusive relationship has scrambled them. Ruth shares her 24-hour rule for decisions made in a panic, why the honest answer to how much it will cost is that it depends, and the red flag that makes her turn a client away: someone who wants the case to punish rather than to end. She is candid that court is not a therapeutic venue, that its job is to break a legal contract, not to heal your pain or decide who was right.

She also makes a case for finding moments of joy in the middle of grief, especially when children are watching, and for remembering that this is a stage you are passing through, not a life sentence. Her closing wish for every client says it best: I hope you never see me again.

As always, this is strategic education, not legal or mental-health advice for your specific situation.

🎓 What you'll learn

• Why marriage is the one contract people sign without reading the terms
• How to rebuild trust in your own instincts after an abusive relationship
• The 24-hour rule for any decision you're making in a panic
• Why "how much will it cost" honestly depends, and what drives the number
• The red flag that makes a good attorney turn a client away
• How to choose an attorney you won't end up "breaking up" with
• Why court is there to end a contract, not to heal your pain or decide who was right

⏱️ Chapters
0:00 Intro
1:00 Ruth's "unicorn" background
3:00 The contract nobody reads the terms on
5:00 When opposing counsel gets personal
7:00 When it feels like the judge doesn't like you
9:00 Rebuilding trust in your own instincts after abuse
13:00 The panic state, and the 24-hour rule
15:00 "How much will it cost?" and why it depends
17:00 The red flag: clients who want revenge, not resolution
19:00 Choosing an attorney you won't "break up" with
23:00 Life after the case, and finding joy in the grief

Keep going 💜
Book a free 30-minute discovery call and we'll help you map your next steps: https://beentheregotout.com/call
📘 Been There Got Out: Toxic Relationships, High-Conflict Divorce, and How to Stay Sane Under Insane Circumstances — https://www.amazon.com/dp/194627495X
📘 Been There Got Out: When Your Ex Turns the Kids Against You (our parental-alienation book) — https://www.amazon.com/dp/1967674183
🔗 Ruth Chung at The Chung Firm: https://www.chungfirm.com/

🎧 More with Ruth Chung on this podcast
Ep 160: How to Hold Your Own in Family Court

About Been There Got Out
Chris Barry and Lisa Johnson are high-conflict divorce, custody, and co-parenting strategists, and the founders of Been There Got Out. They know these cases from the inside: both have successfully represented themselves in family court. Few attorneys have a playbook for a case like this — Chris and Lisa write yours with you, so you and your kids can get through it as unscathed as possible.