Episode Details

Caroline Lee is a death doula, therapist, and photographer based in Oakland, California, where she is currently training to become a somatic psychologist and psychedelic therapist. She had the opportunity to receive ibogaine treatment about eight months ago. 

What we discuss:

• What is a death doula? What does it mean to be in relationship with death, and why is this an important relationship to consider?

• How Caroline envisions psychedelics fitting into our rituals around death, if laws were changed and psychedelics were available at end-of-life for people suffering from palliative anxiety

• The potential applications of ibogaine for palliative anxiety and more, from a therapist’s perspective

• Should therapists be required to take psychedelics if they want to offer psychedelic-assisted therapy?

• How ibogaine helped Caroline process the grief she experienced after a divorce that marked the end of a 16-year relationship 

• What death and the end of relationships have in common

• What Caroline’s work as a doula and a therapist have taught her about the role of grief

Why it’s important: 

You’ve heard it said before but I feel like it needs to be said more often: death is a part of life – and this conversation really showed me that talking about it openly isn’t morbid or negative or inherently bad in any way - it’s a way for us to stay more connected to the present moment. Feeling into the grief that we feel when someone dies, or when a relationship ends, expands our capacity for emotion – and using psychedelics including ibogaine can allow us to not only come to terms with those emotions, but arrive at a feeling of peace around our own mortality. 

Relevant Links:

• Caroline’s Instagram
• Caroline’s TikTok
• Caroline’s Website
• Study: Psilocybin for end-of-life anxiety